Negotiating the Masculine and Feminine Dance
Do you think energy is a bunch of woo woo crap? Would you like to know how to better work not only with your partner, but friends, co-workers and others? If so, this Naked Talk is for you. Listed while Ed Fell talks about how we negotiate that dance between the masculine and feminine energies in a practical non-woo woo way.
0:05 Elizabeth Wood (EW): Women, have you ever felt that your masculine energy is over-powering your feminine?
0:09 Dan Powers (DP): Men, have you wondered if your masculine energy is over-powering women? Have you ever wanted to know why they think that you may sometimes be creepy?
0:21 EW: If so, stay tuned for this exciting episode of Naked Talk. Naked Talk is where we get naked in a conversation on sexuality, intimacy, and relationships. We strip down and expose the bare facts so that you can learn what it takes for your love to thrive. I’m Elizabeth Wood.
0:41 DP: And I’m Dan Powers with Beyond the Bedroom. Welcome.
0:44 EW: Welcome. Tonight we are really excited to have our friend, mentor, fellow educator and Ed Fell with us so I’m gonna introduce him a second before we pull him in online because I did a little homework. So let me unveil, unroll–
1:03 DP: Unwrap.
1:03 EW: Unwrap Ed for you.
1:05 DP: Undress. We’re gonna undress Ed…
1:07 EW: We’re not gonna– We’re not on this Naked Talk. But for over twenty-five years Ed has assisted for-profit and non-profit companies and organizations to value the human-to-human connection as a means of achieving their next level of evolution. Ed works with management and corporate teams, he facilitates meditations, he brings awareness to difference and diversity training, he’s committed to promoting diversity and inclusion in all workplaces, churches, community, government and non-governmental organizations. Ed also facilitates, what he calls and point, deep process facilitation. This is Ed’s unique method of uncovering and releasing blockages to unveil your fullest, authentic expression. It involves an eclectic blend of body-oriented awareness, voice dialogue, emotional release and shadow work. So everybody, please welcome–
2:17 DP: I want to say some of my stuff first, too.
2:19 EW: Oh you do?
2:20 DP: Yeah, without writing on paper, what Ed is for me, is he’s absolutely a mentor. He calls me on my shit when that happens and, you know, he’s great, he’s there all the time for me, really understands his stuff, very knowledgeable about the area that we’re gonna be talking about tonight– masculine and feminine energies. So with that, I would like to go ahead an welcome Ed Fell to the program. Hey Ed!
2:47 EW: Hi Ed!
2:49 Ed Fell (EF): I’m so embarrassed, it was so cool. Wow, was that me?
2:54 EW: Yeah, there you are, you know, front and center. So welcome to yourself, Ed? Are you, by chance, bringing out a little bit of your embarrassed, shy, sweet, wonderful feminine?
3:06 EF: Oh, you like that, don’t you? Yeah, I am.
3:10 EW: So tell me we have you– we have you joining us to actually talk about the dance between the masculine and feminine within each particular person, because you both have masculine and feminine energy, and then you’re also going to talk and share with us about that balance and dance between partners. So, without, further ado, what is it you have for us?
3:35 EF: Well for years I’ve been a little suspicious of, what I call, the new-aged community and energy workers ’cause I just didn’t get it; I didn’t understand that energy really is a real thing. And for the last four years, and if I– a little embarrassment about that resume you wrote because every year or two years I have to totally remake myself and become interested in something different and the last few years, I’ve been devoting my study and my energy and going to workshops and learning from different teachers and bringing together all of the lineages that I have been involved in the last, I don’t know, thirty years, together into this study of energy and especially the two energies of the masculine and the feminine. And I know– what I’m learning more about is how energy either is going to attract to each other, they’re gonna repel, or they’re gonna be somewhere neutral with each other. I know when I go into that psych ward we call ‘Cosco’ here on Maui, the amount of energy that’s floating through that building can be incredible invasive to someone like me, who’s sensitive to energy. And I know I have to put a bubble around me to protect myself from this bombardment of all craziness in that psych ward called ‘Cosco’. I don’t think Cosco would probably like me saying that, but…
5:16 DP: Probably not.
5:18 EF: But I’m also interested in specifically two energies, the masculine and the feminine energies. And when I think of them, in my own body, I think of my masculine energy is that part of me that projects into the world, that penetrates my essence into the world, that, anatomically, when I’m making love I’m penetrating my partner with my masculine energy. My receptive feminine energy is in my chest, around my heart. That’s where I’ll receive nurturance, that kind of thing, and it’s the opposite for a woman; her energetic, masculine side, even though she may nurture her babies, really is coming from her chest, where she gives and gives and gives and where she receives, anatomically, is in her pelvis, that’s where she receives. So understanding that, physically, but as well as emotionally helps me to understand, read people around me, has made my own practice really take off and assist me, greatly, in my relationship with my partner, Judith, who has a lot of masculine energy, as you both know. And if I try to out-masculine her, we’re just in a battle of wills and fight. However, if I can just grow my masculine and it’s solid, it’s clear, it’s protective, it’s holding space, it’s not having to defeat the other masculine, she can then drop into her feminine and rest there, she can relax there, she can be held there and be nurtured by her own feminine. Understand?
7:18 EW: Absolutely. So what I want to ask is, I’ve heard you use the word ‘king’. It sounds to me, when you’re stepping into that full masculine, maybe what you’re calling the ‘king’, it’s a mature masculine because you’re using the words ‘protective’, ‘supportive’, you know, and that’s different than, I’ve also heard you say, the ‘warrior’ masculine, the ‘king’ or, excuse me, the ‘fighting warrior’ energy. Can you talk a little bit about that?
7:49 EF: Well, there’s shadow sides to both sides. Yeah, when I’m talking about, and I know we have a workshop coming on the fourteenth which I’ll be presenting a lot of this material on, and I can’t go too deep into the nuances of the different types of masculine and feminine, like the king and queen, but, you know, I know Dan has a very strong warrior masculine side and that’s not negative, it’s, “I’m gonna break through and do what needs to be done for the good of my mission.” And that’s really solid, it’s not needing to win at all costs. No, but he’s being– he’s serving a mission that he has in his life. Someone who is in their shadow warrior will be competing, not willing to bend at all, may be brittle or rigid or not able to let go.
8:52 DP: So there are two sides to the kinds of archetypes that you’re talking about; the warrior has the positive/negative, or the shadow–
9:00 EW: And a king has a positive…
9:01 DP: And a king has that as well, and it sounds like there is also for the feminine side, you’ve got the queen and…
9:07 EF: Right.
9:08 DP: And some other player
9:11 EF: And her shadow side could be really selfish, controlling, could be the ice-queen, impenetrable– not like you, Elizabeth.
9:23 EW: Ed, you’re so sweet.
9:26 EF: What’s really cool is I’d love to demonstrate it now because I know, Elizabeth, I’m revealing a little bit about you that probably everybody already knows, is that you do have a strong masculine side, right?
9:40 EW: I do.
9:40 EF: You do and you have a beautiful feminine side as well, but you’ll often lead the world– into the world, from wanting to accomplish things or that part of you is giving and it costs you something when you can’t be in your feminine. So you marry a guy, Dan, who is a really strong masculine, I mean, he’s off the chart with the masculine energy naturally, and when it’s really clear, it feels good to you to be able to drop into your feminine I suppose, yeah?
10:18 EW: Absolutely, you’ve seen it a number of times.
10:24 EF: So even now, I mean, while you’re on the screen, what would it be like for you, Dan, to just imagine you’re in your protective, solid masculine and maybe a burglar’s trying to break into the house or something and you’re gonna protect your house and you’re gonna protect your woman and it’s solid and she may even, at times, be spinning out– “I’m really worried, I’m worried about this”, but you got it. You are clear, you gotta just imagine that you are sending your energetic left arm around her right now.
11:03 DP: OK, doing it.
11:04 EF: Doing it.
11:05 DP: Yeah…
11:07 EF: And Elizabeth, what’s going on? What happens inside?
11:11 EW: There’s– as you were describing what was taking place, I went into the panic– I mean, I know that well, the panic, “Oh, how’s this gonna play out? What do I need to do?” And when you asked Dan to send that protective arm around me, I was able to drop some of that and lean into him so that I didn’t have to do it all. I could lean and just– I wouldn’t say I’d be relaxed when a burglar came in, but allow him to have my back, to take it for me.
11:45 EF: Right. What would happen now if you just leaned into him, physically and just let your weight be on him?
11:54 EW: The whole weight?
11:55 EF: What do you notice in your body?
11:57 EW: Calm. He’s– woooh! There goes my hairdo. Calm and peace and definitely loving, more loving I would say.
12:12 EF: In your own body?
12:13 EW: In my body, absolutely, I can’t say for Dan but…
12:18 EF: What do you think– what do you notice in the connection between you?
12:24 EW: Well, I just slid my arm down his leg and gave him a nice squeeze and…
12:31 DP: This is why it’s Naked Talk, you should see what we’re wearing below the shirts.
12:34 EW: We have clothes on, people. It’s all PG.
12:39 DP: They can’t see below our shirts.
12:40 EW: Yeah, it’s– I’m sensing a warmth and…
12:46 DP: We’re in connection.
12:46 EW: Yeah. An intimacy.
12:48 DP: From my side.
12:52 EF: And even though your solid masculine is still there, it’s like the yin-yang symbol, Dan, you have a spot of the feminine in the midst of the masculine where you can feel and sense and merge with her, right?
13:04 DP: Oh yeah, absolutely.
13:05 EF: Yeah.
13:07 EW: We actually find, we’ve been building your course, not building, but putting together all of your texts for the course and we’ve actually been talking a little bit about it and we’re both in incredible agreement or, we’re like both thumbs up on how our relationship works so much better when that masculine Dan– Dan’s masculine is not overpowering mine, but Dan’s masculine is there allowing my full feminine to come forward. It’s actually the most beautiful part of our relationship and I would imagine most heterosexual couples.
13:49 EF: Yeah. Well this works for gay couples as well, all kinds of couples. It’s a matter of not gender but energy and so working, you know, I’ve worked with this– and this is also an exceptionally good skill set when I maneuver through the world. Whether it’s negotiating a contract with a company, or just being able to read people and call up what energy’s needed for me and watch them either be attracted to it, repelled by it, neutral to it, but something– I’m going to create a response depending on how I show up, right
14:31 EW: So you also mentioned in–
14:33 EF: So it works.
14:33 EW: The outline–
14:35 EF: It works for– I like it working for learning how to connect with a potential partner. Or, how to ask for some intimate time with a partner. How do you ask? Are you gonna ask from the masculine needy side? It’s gonna turn the feminine off. But asking for an intimate connection, sex with your partner from your strong masculine and she can drop into her feminine, you’re gonna create a better connection and polarity in bed.
15:15 DP: Well I can see it as well. There’s times when I come home and, it doesn’t matter– we’re at the home together– and she comes out with her strong masculine and I’m with my strong masculine and we are just, really, butting heads and aren’t moving anywhere and we start getting angry with each other and upset. And so I can see that if we can keep that in mind and recognize, you know, she does need to be in her masculine at that moment then I can maybe drop into my feminine or vice versa and that’ll help make things a little smoother, I would imagine.
15:53 EF: Well I wouldn’t encourage you to drop into your feminine, but I would encourage, like, also, you know, as your masculine could surround and hold Elizabeth, her feminine has a way that could support you; let’s say you might be in your rigid masculine and stubborn, “I want it my way,” and this, and if she tries to come in with her masculine– ain’t gonna work. However, if she were to come in with her feminine and even just simply touch her chest and say, “Hey, big guy, what’s going on in there?” There might be a softening of your masculine where you can show up. Does that happen?
16:39 EW: Well the last part doesn’t happen, but I was just gonna say, “Were you there at our last argument?” Or heated discussion… So I like that suggestion of coming in– there are often times where I will ask something deeper because I know the situation, really, there’s something else going on and when I’m in my more powerful feminine, and not in the masculine, I can come to him and try to gain a deeper understanding. With a quiet voice or with a more soothing voice to try and get out of him what might be triggering the crunchy response. But a lot of times, and most women do or might do this as well, we’re reactive and I might ask you, Ed, do you see that we’re more reactive from that masculine “grrrrr”?
17:39 EF: Yeah, what I love about this body of work is yes, we are reactive, our emotional centers are triggered, there’s a threat somehow that might be related to some trauma in our past, or whatever, and we’re going to be reactive. Now what we’re going to be offering on the 14th is just the basic map of how it’s gonna work, how the masculine and feminine can work together, how it can work together in our own, within our own bodies, how to identify whether I’m in masculine or feminine, what is it that I want to call up and then the mastery of it is gonna happen after the 14th where you’re all gonna have chances to practice, daily, how to choose what energy you want to lead from. Rather than being reactive, choose, “OK, who do I want to bring on board now? Even though I might be in a tense situation with Judith or a contract of some sort, how can I call on what I want to call on?” So, in the workshop, I’m gonna provide the map. I’ve got an incredibly great story to tell about the masculine and feminine that I’m excited about. I wish I had more time, I would do it here. But also, we’re gonna be practicing– this is not a nude workshop or anything like that– but this is more about energy, we’re gonna be practicing with each other how to read each other’s energy and how to do the masculine/feminine dance. And one thing I really want to stress here is that masculine and feminine, there’s no one that’s superior to the other; they’re both incredibly powerful but in their own unique way.
19:34 DP: OK
19:35 EF: That’s a reverse of what we normally think in our culture.
19:38 DP: Right. And this is something that can be applied regardless of just a regular female/male relationship or male/male, female/female relationship; this can be applied in the workplace, at Cosco, wherever you’re at.
19:51 EW: With a client… So can you talk a little bit more about that? I remember you mentioned you were really cognizant of this before, negotiating a contract, but how might people, then, go and use this at the workplace or as a parent?
20:09 EF: So if I know that I’m going to be going as, you know, I have worked for myself for over thirty years so I don’t know what it’s like to go to an employer, but I know how to deal with it– somebody who holds the money strings in a corporate setting and gets something out of a contract and a lot of it is just being able to read the energy of the other and come in and build a bridge and not be a threat. So my masculine doesn’t need to be a threat to, if someone says ‘no’ to me, I would be asking and bringing a little bit of my feminine and say, “Hey, what’s going on for you around this? I haven’t heard about your response to my contract proposal yet. What do we have to do to work together to make it happen?” Rather than being combative, I’m gonna negotiate with using my energy and my skillset of my words to get what I want or get what we both want. Again, coming from my sovereign, golden king rather than my warrior that has to go in there and win.
21:24 EW: So in our society, in general, you know, so many women take on so much more of that masculine role.
21:33 EF: Yeah.
21:34 EW: I’m not gonna say it’s a trend, but it’s something that’s gone on for quite a long period of time.
21:41 EF: Yeah, yeah.
21:42 EW: So I imagine this learning is going to help each one of us as an individual, but then help couples reverse that so that we can bring more of this feminine energy to the world. After all, the Dali Llama says that it’s the feminine, that women are going to lead us into our highest evolution as, you know, “mankind”.
22:05 EF: Yeah. That’s right and I’m glad you said– ’cause you said it really right. You said, “Feminine empowerment. It’s not women’s empowerment, it’s feminine empowerment. And that means a woman really understanding her feminine nature and leading through that so she doesn’t have to depend on her masculine for survival, to take care of herself. You know, there are even, I believe– I mean, I don’t have scientific research for it, but I believe that a woman suffers from so much having to lead from her masculine that she suffers in her feminine. Her feminine doesn’t get enough time, attention for, even her, to understand the mysteries and the intuition and the beauty of her own feminine. Because it’s not rewarded in society, it’s not supported.
23:05 EW: So you’re workshop, if you want, I mean, it could be called something like “Nurturing the feminine, supporting the powerful masculine”. You know, there– I know that’s not the name and we’re not here to think of one, but–
23:19 EF: Yeah.
23:19 EW: Just– it sounds like that’s what you’re offering all of us, whether it’s in a female body or a male body. Really nurturing the feminine within us and quieting the warrior masculine, again, both in–
23:38 DP: Well not quieting it so much but using it when it’s appropriate– when it’s appropriate.
23:41 EW: Oh yes, yeah. Yeah, because there’s a shadow, as you said earlier, there’s a shadow side to the warrior as well as the stronger side to the warrior, so that brings the right correction.
23:53 EF: There’s another really cool side to this and– as working around people with sexual issues, that a lot of times the sexual issues are not physical, but they may be energy. What– you know, some men that I’ve been working with who have had, for instance, erection issues, when I teach them how to access their healthy masculine, the erection issues disappear and they show up. So it’s not just physical, let’s just not take Viagra, but how about how to really, really, embody the masculine and then watch what happens down below there. So it’s the same thing for women, it’s about working with sexual dysfunction through energy and understanding this masculine/feminine dance that’s in our bodies.
24:50 DP: So one of the things that I see from this, and correct me if I’m wrong, but from the men that you’re coaching, and this is something that I’ve coached men around as well, is if you’re really trying to get that erection, if you’re really worried about it so, therefore, you’re in a kind of that warrior, I think, energy that’s really pushing, pushing, pushing, “I’ve got to accomplish something. I’ve got to get there. I’ve got to show up for my woman or my partner.”
25:18 EF: Right.
25:18 DP: That’s where it’s gonna have a hard time. Whereas you can relax and be in that non-competitive or, you know, “Hey, I ‘m just gonna be here and support my partner regardless of what happens”, then you can relax and the erection’s gonna come.
25:33 EF: Exactly. But add this extra piece of helping a man to energetically, and you did it very beautifully a few minutes ago, embodying the masculine, letting all the other parts go away when you’re annoyed at your partner or needy or whatever and you let it go and, “I am here.” You’re solid, you’re a mountain and then your body’s gonna relax; you’re not operating from fear, “Oh my god, it might not happen again.” You’re gonna operate from a different part of you and erections.
26:12 DP: Yeah I can see something– I know one of our issues is driving. I’m a very confident driver and I get very annoyed at other people who, sometimes in Boulder, seem to drive below the speed limit as opposed to at the speed limit or above, like I do, and Elizabeth will get upset with me and I will, you know, I’m in my– totally in my masculine at that point; I’m angry and upset and almost, I would say, competitive, and she really does a great job of getting in her feminine and say, “You know, I would really like for you to not do that, it’s scaring me.” And where I’m not as good is being able to drop into that masculine, that positive masculine, that is here to say, “No, I’m here to support you, to make you feel safe.”
27:02 EW: But he does– you do. You slow down. When I point it out that it’s scaring me and I’m becoming more uncomfortable and I grab for that, you know, hand rail more than one or two times and he gets it. Despite the fact that, I mean, we’re really all annoyed in traffic, he does calm down and sort of react to, or not react to, he responds to my request but it’s because I’ve learned to tell him, “It’s frightening me. I’m getting nervous. This is upsetting. Despite the other drivers not doing we want them to, I get it, can you slow down?” So we’re getting better at a lot of those aspects and I can’t wait to learn, actually, even more.
27:47 DP: Well we’ve been doing it, kind of, naturally and not having terms for it so it’s really nice to start getting some terminology that we can apply to it and then be more conscious of it.
27:57 EF: But it is fun to play with. But I’ll see, like, I was at a restaurant and this wait person, woman, was kind of cold, icy, bitchy, and watching what happens when I just put on my masculine and it was solid, it was clear, it wasn’t judging her for being the way she was, I smiled, I had really, you know, what some people would call, “good energy”, and she just softened around me. Then she became very attentive and then hung around my table maybe a little too much. But learning how to play with those energies impacts my environment around me, which is really cool. Especially in an intimate relationship.
28:53 EW: And it sounds like you’re using it very consciously. I want to be careful of anybody misinterpreting that the word manipulating might be in there. What you’re talking about is a conscious awareness and from that place, that’s where you would play or interact with others.
29:10 EF: Yes and it has to be authentic, you can’t just fake it, “I’m putting on my masculine.” I have to already have that tool inside me and I know how to help men and women access their masculine/feminine energies, it happens almost instantly when I get a group of people together. I’m watching it happen and the interactions just shift. I especially love teaching single men how to approach a woman so that he might get a date or a connection that he may not have had before. So it’s all– and it’s fun, it really is fun.
29:53 EW: So that– it sounds, you know, we’re wanting to invite singles, we’re wanting to invite couples to the workshop that is going to be in Boulder on March 14th. You can find more information out, excuse me, on the workshop, on our website BedEvents.com. Ed Fell can be reached at EdFell.com. So…
30:21 DP: No. What email address would you like everybody to know about, Ed?
30:25 EF: Well my website is EdFell.com.
30:28 DP: OK.
30:29 EF: My email address is EdFell3@gmail.com. But my numbers and contacts are all on my website.
30:38 DP: OK.
30:38 EW: Wonderful. So everybody, that about wraps up tonight’s Naked Talk. We want to thank you for being a part of this potent conversation. Dan and I especially want to thank our friend, mentor… I don’t know…
30:54 DP: All around good egg.
30:54 EW: All around, yeah. Phenomenal person. We are so happy that you joined us for this wonderful Naked Talk, Ed, and we look forward to participating and bringing out the most beautiful aspects of the masculine and feminine…
31:10 EF: Thank you guys.
31:12 EW: And to learn from each other.